Jeff Koons
*llona on Top (Rosa Background)*,1990
oil inks on canvas
96 x 144 inches
Photo: Schaub/Hoeffner, Courtesy the artist, TASCHEN GmbH

interview by Oliver Kupper

Ilona Staller, better known as Cicciolina, is one of the most fascinating and controversial figures in modern pop culture. The Italo-Hungarian icon made waves as an adult film star, singer, muse, secret agent, and provocateur before taking an unexpected turn into politics—becoming one of the first adult entertainers to be elected to public office. With her signature blend of bold sexuality and radical idealism, she shocked the Italian parliament in the late ‘80s, advocating for sexual liberation, environmentalism, and peace.

OLIVER KUPPER: I would like to start off with desire—as someone who has publicly explored their own sexuality through multiple mediums—I’d love to know what your personal definition of desire is.

CICCIOLINA: When we talk about desire, it’s a broad concept. It embraces many ideas. One could say that it’s not just about sexual desire but the desire for anything—such as the desire for a fantastic life, the desire to have the perfect man, and desire… in sexuality. I have always been one of the most desired divas in the world. I am very happy about this beautiful feeling. However, sometimes it is better for it to remain just that—like a dream, unrealized.

KUPPER: How has desire changed for you?

CICCIOLINA: How has desire changed for me? I must say that sexual desire never ages. I have the same sexual desire now as I did when I was a teenager. I love sex—but only when it’s with the right person.

KUPPER: You once proposed an offer to spend one night with Saddam and Osama Bin Laden to bring peace to the Middle East, how does desire and politics intertwine?

CICCIOLINA: It's true that I made a journalistic statement saying that in exchange for peace, I would have sex with Osama Bin Laden, and even with Putin. This statement appeared in all the newspapers. However, my proposal had nothing to do with personal desire—only the desire for peace. The same applied to my statement regarding Saddam Hussein.

KUPPER: There’s some rumors that Saddam actually reached out to you—is that true?

CICCIOLINA: I was contacted by the Iraqi embassy, and I went to discuss my idea.

KUPPER: What happened at the Iraqi embassy—what kind of questions did they ask?

CICCIOLINA: I was contacted by the Iraqi embassy in Rome. I personally went to speak with Saddam’s right-hand man. He asked me a thousand questions; they were intrigued by my statement. I stayed there for over three hours, then he told me they would let me know. The rest is history.

KUPPER: You were raised in a relatively repressive society—within the Iron Curtain—how did you protect your desire?

CICCIOLINA: I grew up in Budapest, Hungary, under communism. I never felt that my desire was a problem or repressed. On the contrary, as a model, I met many interesting people, photographers, and entrepreneurs. My desire was to discover the world and different cultures.

KUPPER: When did sex, politics, and art enter your life?

CICCIOLINA: I have always used my excellent mind to reason things out. Politics has always been in my heart. Even through my shows, I have shared my ideas and done a lot of charity work for poor people. I have great empathy for those in need and help them with deep tenderness. Art is in my blood. As a child, I was a classical ballerina and painted paintings, and I still paint today—to sell them. You can see my artwork on my social media and website.

KUPPER: How did you come to serve in the Italian parliament—what was that experience like? What were some of the biggest hurdles in such a patriarchal environment?

CICCIOLINA: I am a true political woman. In 1987, I was elected with the Radical Party with 20,000 votes—an incredible success, as it was the first time a porn star was elected as a parliamentarian. I completed the full five-year legislature until 1992. Then, we founded the Party of Love. I proposed around twenty bills that are still filed in parliament. From 1987 to 1992, I was a member of the Italian Parliament.

KUPPER: You have denied being a secret agent, but wouldn’t you make the perfect secret agent? Isn’t sex the greatest tool?

CICCIOLINA: I had a brief but dangerous experience as a secret agent. Of course, beauty is a great asset when it comes to discovering people's hidden secrets… and also, sex.

KUPPER: What's the greatest secret someone has told you after sex?

CICCIOLINA: Generally, after having sex, men relax and immediately smoke a cigarette. I’ve never understood why. However, with me, it’s different. Forget the secrets… endless hugs and kisses follow—my sweetness fascinates them!

1980s advertising photoshoot on Mauritius Island
Photo courtesy Riccardo Schicchi

KUPPER: Online pornography has proliferated in the digital era—where do you see the evolution of desire from the analog to digital and now AI?

CICCIOLINA: Online pornography has now flooded the world. Countless websites are dedicated to pornography, where desire gets lost, leaving only pure carnal sex in all its forms. Often, it goes beyond sex, becoming extremely aggressive. Artificial intelligence is the creation of a computer or machine capable of reasoning, learning, and acting in ways that normally require human intelligence, or involve data analysis on a scale beyond human capability. But there is only one problem: desire, empathy, sex. How could a computer ever do that?

KUPPER: You originally received a fax from Jeff Koons—you were used to working with male performers but what was it like working with an artist?

CICCIOLINA: When I received Jeff Koons' proposal via fax, I was fascinated by the idea of becoming the muse of this great American contemporary artist. We met in Rome and took wonderful, highly explicit nude photographs, which he later transformed into paintings and sold worldwide. I became his muse and inspiration. Before long, I became his fiancée, and we married in 1991 in Budapest. I spent my pregnancy in Munich, Germany, and then we moved to New York, where I lived with him and our son, Ludwig Koons, for two and a half years. Ludwig was born on October 29, 1992, at 9:03 PM. Unfortunately, our marriage ended in a turbulent divorce and many legal battles. I returned from New York to Rome, to my penthouse, with baby Ludwig. Jeff later came to Rome to visit Ludwig, but he illegally took him away from me. He left for New York with little Ludwig, committing child abduction. It was then that lawyer Luca Di Carlo, known as the "Devil’s Advocate," took on my case and decided to help me legally. He is a world-renowned Italian attorney specializing in international criminal law and a public figure. He has defended major drug cartels, the family of Pablo Escobar, la Santa Sede Apostolic, and many others. With a fortune worth several billion dollars, he is considered the highest-paid and most feared lawyer, having pushed the boundaries of the law by defending the indefensible. He earned his pseudonym "The Devil's Advocate" due to the challenging legal cases he has taken on worldwide and the controversial figures he has defended, securing their acquittals despite their guilt—an aspect that has sparked significant public criticism.

KUPPER: We are living in the time of the climate crisis—how can we use desire and sexuality to imagine a new equitable future for the environment?

CICCIOLINA: We are living in a time of climate crisis—this is absolutely true. It is important to respect nature more and eat healthily, not consume locust flour or synthetic meat. People want to eat well so they can live to 100 years old, like in Tibet. The climate crisis is caused by humans. But why resort to violence against nature?

KUPPER: When you were in politics, you advocated for sex workers—with mainstream films like Anora —do you think the attitude is changing or does society need to do more?

CICCIOLINA: When I was in politics, one of my proposed laws was the reopening of regulated brothels, to be directly managed by the sex workers themselves. This way, they could pay taxes and have access to healthcare.

KUPPER: How can sex change society?

CICCIOLINA: Sex can bring real change to society. Years ago, there weren’t as many homosexuals, gays, and trans people. Today, they hold important positions in society—politicians, TV directors, etc. I am a gay icon. I don’t judge any of them because they are just like heterosexuals. They live their sexuality in a society that is still not free and, unfortunately, are often judged.

KUPPER: In the US, Trump is promising to end wars, but he is using the pretense of religion to wage a war on women’s bodies and queer people. What are your thoughts on this double standard?

CICCIOLINA: In Italy, I supported Mr. Donald Trump and I prayed in church for him to win the American elections. I have listened to his speeches multiple times, where he says he wants peace for the whole world and that wars must end forever. Fantastic! I admire him for this!

KUPPER: What is your advice to young people discovering their own sexual liberation?

CICCIOLINA: My advice to young people is to live their sexuality freely and to not care about moralists or bigots.

KUPPER: Your autobiography Memorie was first released in 2002—it was a different world back then. What do you hope the world learns about Ilona Staller and Cicciolina through its re-release?

CICCIOLINA: My beautiful photographic autobiography, Memorie, a visual story of the myth of Cicciolina Ilona Staller, can be purchased on my website. It’s a stunning 230-page book in full color, with over 1,000 photographs of me—from my childhood and adolescence to my performances in nightclubs, singing with my snake on TV shows, reality shows, and more. This way, people can get to know me better.

KUPPER: What do you want people to know about Ilona Staller the woman and Cicciolina the performer and icon?

CICCIOLINA: I am an international artist, I work on TV, perform in nightclubs, and participate in reality shows all over the world. I am a complete artist. And if I manage to get permission to return to the United States, I would be the happiest woman and mother in the world, as I could reunite with my son Ludwig, who lives in New York. This is truly my greatest wish, and I hope it comes true soon.

interview by Oliver Kupper

ART / FASHION/ CULTURE / MUSIC / FILM

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