An interview of jason keeling

 Interview by Adam Lehrer

Photographs by Jason Keeling

The photographer Jayson Keeling got his start as a commercial photographer for hip-hop magazines in the ‘90s. His lens has captured the images of several iconic figures from hip-hop and popular music: LL Cool J, Lauryn Hill and the late Aaliyah amongst them. Later, he would turn his commercial pursuits to pornography, offering video and photography work to LaMancha, a company dealing specifically in depictions of black and Latino men. It’s more than likely that you are unfamiliar with the artist’s name and that’s okay. Keeling has something of an air of mystery around his public persona. He doesn’t have longtime gallery representation or a page on Artsy, but he has gotten strong public support from major American artists including Mickalene Thomas and has been involved in major institutional exhibitions. Keeling offers those who take an interest in his work a profound sense of discovery. I first discovered Keeling’s work when the artist collaborated with fashion brand Telfar, shooting a look book for the label’s FW 2017 collection, which included a range of hyped up uniforms for employees of the infamous Tri-State burger chain White Castle.  The label hired Keeling to shoot portraits of actual White Castle employees wearing their new outfits. In the aftermath of his Telfar collaboration, Keeling has become one of my favorite artists. There are so many elements of his practice worth unearthing. I was dying to speak to him.

ADAM LEHRER: I want to talk about your upbringing a little bit. You moved back and forth between New York and Jamaica. That’s a pretty interesting cross-cultural dialogue, do you feel like you were getting contrasting sensibilities from that? 

JAYSON KEELING: No, it feels more conflicting and actually confrontational, if that’s even possible.

LEHRER: The early eighties was a time when some incredible music was being produced in both New York and Jamaica. Considering your deep relationship to music, how do you feel that this proximity affected you during your formative years? 

KEELING: When I was in High School, I pretty much looked like everyone else in terms of having a hip hop style. My brother actually went out with Slick Rick’s sister. In High School I was pretty much tempted to be like everyone. Then, at a certain point, I shed that skin. This was pre-Fashion Institute of Technology – just before. I was obsessed with Prince. There was an aspect of James Brown, the connection to funk as well, sprinkled in. In the neighborhood that I grew up in the Bronx I think I was the first person to walk around in a green trench coat and red Doc Martens. I was doing my thing and I always have. It was a good look at the time.

LEHRER: When you were at The Fashion Institute of Technology were you studying to become a fine artist or fashion photographer? 

KEELING: I didn’t study photography at FIT, I pretty much studied to become a fashion illustrator. I did that for a while after I left school. I decided to move to London because I had extended family there. This was is in the mid ‘80s. I had an amazing time there. I lived with an older cousin and her boyfriend. I enrolled myself in Central St. Martins. While I was there, they were like, your work is good….we’ll give you whatever you need to stay. 

LEHRER: How did you start getting involved with commercial photography? 

KEELING: Living in the Bronx, we had a really tiny basement. There was a small toilet and a standing shower. That’s pretty much where I taught myself the photographic process.

LEHRER: What was it about photography that clicked for you?

KEELING: I lost interest in fashion illustration and then taught myself photography. I had a close friend from high school, whose name was Kingman Hugh, he was a phenomenal caricaturist. We met the staff of YSB (aka Young Sisters and Brothers), the magazine for the Black Entertainment Television group. They commissioned a portrait and then asked for photographers. Kingman recommended me. I spoke to them and I received a call shortly afterwards. They pretty much said, “We have an assignment for you.” It was for their one-year anniversary. “We would like for you to take a picture of two children.” I kept it very simple, it turned out well, and after I gave them those images they called me a week later and asked me to shoot a cover. I went into the shoot and they’re like, “You’re shooting LL Cool J.” I pretty much went from shooting with clip on lights to shooting in the studio with LL Cool J. 

LEHRER: What was it like working with Aaliyah?

KEELING: She had a partner, Kidada Jones, Quincy Jones’ daughter. At the time I was working for One World Magazine. We wound up in a beautiful suburban neighborhood, and I photographed them…people thought they were lesbians. It’s not that the scenario or behavior was erotic, but you could mistake the fact…they looked like two little girls at play. They were just rolling around and laughing and riding on each other’s backs. It was fun and beautiful. Towards the end, I still hadn’t gotten portraits. You can have everything else but you need something to adhere it. I just remember [asking] her, “Do you mind laying in the grass?” And then her dad came over — at the time he seemed like a mountain. She was on the ground and I wanted erotic, sexy images. The dad was there. I was like are any of these a problem? And everyone was very professional, kind and sweet. 

LEHRER: Were you already thinking of yourself of being an artist? Did you compartmentalize your commercial and artistic work?

KEELING: I don’t compartmentalize. Remember, magazines dictate. I was on staff for Vibe, I was also on staff for a number of magazines in the city. The jobs tended to commercially dictate the medium. 

LEHRER: I wanted to talk about LaMancha Magazine…

KEELING: It wasn’t a magazine. It started out with a friend approaching me, Wayne Sterling, and he said, “I have a friend and he’s producing a black, Latino, gay situation.” I was like, “I have to have it. I have to do it.” He was like, “Don’t you want to know anything else?” and I was like, “No.” I didn’t have to fight much for it, but I was like, “You have to give me this. There’s no way you can give this to anyone else.” 

LEHRER: So at LaMancha, what were you shooting for them?

KEELING: All photos, and some videos. I just thought to myself — there were so many bad images of black men. And really bad books. Books dedicated to black guys and it was just like… I really wanted to do them justice.

LEHRER: I look at all your projects and there’s this massive crisscrossing of culture. Whether it’s porn magazines, hip-hop culture, gay culture. Of course, there’s already a juxtaposition there with the homophobia in hip hop culture. Was this ever a conscious interest of yours— confronting taboos by pairing seemingly incompatible subcultures?

KEELING: After La Mancha launched and the videos came out, they were hot. Personally, I think they’re terrible… is that a mean thing to say? The owner shifted and it became a nightclub situation and it became a really big deal where you had fashion editors, and all of these people, getting lap dances from all the porn guys. 

LEHRER: You see these arty, porn things going on now with Erica Lust. She does gay and straight porn. She went to film school and is all about making porn that puts the man and the woman’s pleasure on equal plateaus. She’s trying to make movies where the people are actually enjoying themselves. That sort of feminist dialogue has gotten to a point where we’re accepting porn, but only when it’s made with consideration of all people involved. So, was LaMancha like an earlier distillation of those ideas? 

KEELING: The actual first day I showed up on set, and there’s all these sort of tough guys in makeup…I just walked in and I was like, “You have to get rid of this makeup.” You can’t have people professing to be thugs, and then wearing makeup.

LEHRER: It seems like you’ve more or less moved away from commercial work?

KEELING: I haven’t. A friend made a suggestion — to show the images — so I’ve been posting them on Instagram. Initially, I was conflicted. It feels odd to just continually post and post and post. It’s not that I’m opposed to it, but it feels strange.

LEHRER: I’ve been looking a lot at the poetry glitter paintings that you do, I was curious about when you became less of a photographer and more of a multimedia artist? 

KEELING: I still don’t think of myself that way.

LEHRER: You think of yourself as a photographer? 

KEELING: No.

LEHRER: As an artist?

KEELING: Yes. 

LEHRER: And the fact that you’re using glitter…It’s often thought of as a lower material.

KEELING: Yeah, that’s why I chose it.

LEHRER: So you’re taking elements from pop culture, low culture, and elevating it to contemporary art? Is that something that you’re interested in in your practice - taking things from sub culture and pop culture, and putting it in the white walled gallery?

KEELING: It’s usually about things that I have some familiarity with and things that I love and appreciate. I don’t know if that sounds too simplistic. It’s usually the things that are the closest to me that I gravitate to initially. 

LEHRER: Your work is fun in a way, but it’s also challenging. You’re always taking these elements of pop and then throwing in something serious or concerning in a way. 

KEELING: It’s not putting together things that I like, it’s putting together things that fit or that are in conflict. That’s also really important to my process. It just can’t bore easily. Somehow in the boredom, in challenging myself, it forces me to respond and react to the circumstance. My process is very much internal, which it is for most people. But in terms of the gestural works and larger works, I’m almost at a stage of meditation. The gesture has to be large and then I allow the material to do its own thing for a while— there’s a real negotiation between myself, the paint, and how I’m feeling emotionally.

If you can use something like glitter, which has positive connotations for most viewers, and then you hit them with this statement, that becomes an interesting way to work when you can dull the senses with inviting materials and that leads the floodgates for someone to engage in the ideas. When you’re looking at art you have to shed the skepticism and then that’s where the real engagement with art comes from. 

LEHRER: To bring us up to date, it was the Telfar project that really introduced me to your work. I was interested if you still keep up with what’s going on in the fashion world, if you knew Telfar’s work and how he approached you for the project.

KEELING: It was as simple as a phone call. I received a phone call and they were very kind. It was pretty intense — maybe two weeks of driving. They introduced the project and said, “It’s pretty much up to you.” They gave me the numbers, images of people, I selected the people and sought out the people and phoned them. It happened very quickly. The shoots themselves were phenomenal— not necessarily commenting on the pictures, but the shoots themselves.

LEHRER: Telfar understands the art world and they pick perfect artists for their projects. Going to you, I can’t think of a better photographer for that project. It doesn’t even feel like a fashion project, it seems like a social documentary project where it’s an underrepresented community of White Castle employees. It was such a nice distillation of what you’re about as an artist.

KEELING: It was an amazing experience. I should have more to say.

LEHRER: What are you working on these days? What’s your exhibition calendar looking like?

KEELING: I don’t have one. I find myself in an interesting place. The place where there seems to be the most interest on Instagram. I’m not getting a million hits, but I don’t know. Something seems to be happening.