Travers Vale & George Cowl, *Betsy Ross*, 1917, (installation view), “What a Wonderful World: An Audiovisual Poem”, 2026. Photo by Joshua White, Courtesy Julia Stoschek Foundation.

interview by Oliver Kupper

Set across all floors of the raw remains of the historic Variety Arts Theater in Downtown Los Angeles, a haunting, confrontational, and revelatory history of moving images flickers in the darkness. Presented by Julia Stoschek and her preeminent Berlin-based foundation for time-based media, this is not an exhibition, nor a retrospective, nor a white-walled museum journey through chronological time. Described as an audiovisual poem, What A Wonderful World—edited (not curated) by Udo Kittelmann—moves from early cinematic experiments and silent film to contemporary video works by artists working today. The breadth of visual storytelling is astonishing. We sit down with Julia Stoschek and Udo Kittelmann to discuss their landmark paean to cinema itself.

OLIVER KUPPER: I want to start with the title, What a Wonderful World. It suggests optimism. The song is an optimistic song but it also carries an undertone of irony, even darkness, especially in the context of a world in crisis; accelerating authoritarianism, shrinking freedoms, and a growing sense of cultural instability. Can you guys talk about where this title came from, and how you hope audiences will interpret it?

UDO KITTELMANN: Personally, I would say, “what a wonderful world” because it really is for me. But I chose this as a title during a time when it goes immediately with a doubt. Louis Armstrong’s song was released in the mid ’60s, during dark times for Americans. There had been war abroad and civil unrest at home. You can easily compare it to how people feel in this moment. It’s the same in the US and in Germany. We all feel a bit disorientated. That’s why it came to me. Why not this wonderful title?

JULIA STOSCHEK: This title could be a question, but I feel it’s more a statement. The beauty and catastrophe coexist constantly. I think it’s a great title, and we also want the people to leave the exhibition with a little glimmer of hope.

KUPPER: It’s a monumental exhibition centered on time-based media and the deeper history of the moving image. You’ve also staged it in the birthplace of cinema at a moment when the industry feels like it’s collapsing under the weight of late-stage capitalism. Did you see the decision to mount an exhibition of this scale here as a provocation, or something else entirely?

STOSCHEK: Hollywood is the birthplace of visual modernity. Staging an exhibition about time-based media and the moving image felt unavoidable. For me, returning images to their origins is the right gesture and has nothing to do with a provocation. How do you feel about it, Udo?

KITTELMANN: It was never intended to be a provocation. When I do projects of this scale, my intention may be to irritate, but it’s ultimately to think about what art can deliver to an audience, how they serve from what they see and hear and experience from it.

KUPPER: Irritation is an interesting word to use as an alternative to provocation.

KITTELMANN: It’s not meant to be a confrontation. It’s an invitation for everyone, not just the art world elite.

Left, Jacolby Satterwhite, *2 Shrines*, 2020: right Doug Aitken, *2 Blow Debris*, 2000, (installation view), “What a Wonderful World: An Audiovisual Poem”, 2026. Photo by Joshua White, Courtesy Julia Stoschek Foundation.

KUPPER: Nam June Paik had a lot of forward-thinking ideas about where media was going, despite not knowing exactly how this attentional economy of flipping and scrolling was going to work. This feels like the opposite of doom scrolling. It feels like you’re flipping through the channels of a real experience as you go through the floors.

KITTELMANN: Absolutely. In 2022, I curated an exhibition about neuroscience in collaboration with Taryn Simon for Fondazione Prada titled Human Brain. What I really took away from it is that we know almost nothing about the human brain. All we know is how easily you can manipulate humans—their thinking, emotions, behaviors—with images.

KUPPER: Time-based media has always been not only understood as a mirror of the zeitgeist, but also as a powerful mechanism to shape it by propagating ideas, ideologies, and mass psychological states. At the same time, the US feels increasingly in the grip of a new fascist oligarchy, one that echoes Germany in the interwar period, particularly in its weaponization of propaganda via media spectacle. Why do you think we remain so seduced, almost helplessly, by the power of moving images?

STOSCHEK: I’m coming from a European perspective that was shaped by postwar history, where political images are never neutral. That awareness stays with us and brings a sense of responsibility. From the outside, what strikes me most in the US right now is the power of the spectacular. Images move super fast and often simplify very complex things. That’s not new, but it has been amplified by the scale and the speed of current technologies. I observe these developments closely. I’m a collector and my role is to create a platform for artists and their work. This exhibition, What a Wonderful World, is not about moralizing or offering answers. It’s about slowing down. We want people to pause, to reflect, and to create a space of awareness.

KITTELMANN: You may consider What a Wonderful World propaganda as well, but for the better, not for the worse. You can use images for both sides. This project is a plea for a return to humanity. I’m not talking about the US. I’m talking about the whole world. That’s it.

Precious Okoyomon, *It‘s dissociating season*, 2019 (installation view), “What a Wonderful World: An Audiovisual Poem”, 2026. Photo by Joshua White, Courtesy Julia Stoschek Foundation.

KUPPER: How did you guys come together for this, and on both a conceptual and formal level, what were some of the frameworks that helped shape this project?

STOSCHEK: I’ve been following Udo’s work for a long time. From when he was director of the Nationalgalerie in Berlin to when he was working for Prada Foundation, Beyeler Foundation—a very, very long time. A few years ago, we were talking and I mentioned that two thirds of my collection is comprised of either artists or works that have a connection to the US. I was a board member at MOCA from 2018 until 2022, and I have always wanted to show these parts of the collection in the US, but since then, it was clear that it had to be Los Angeles because of its connection to the moving image. And then Udo came up with the idea to show all of the early cinema classics and silent movies.

KITTELMANN: Well, when Julia asked me what I thought about doing the project in Los Angeles, I immediately said yes. I was thinking about combining the history of the moving image, from silent film to more recent art-based works. That was the very first step. The conceptual idea was drafted one and a half years ago, and nothing big has changed. But what we can see now is that the issues that this project is dealing with are getting more and more present. I wanted to look at early film classics to show that the technology may have changed over a hundred years, but the issues that the films were dealing with haven’t changed at all. These are the general lines of humans: they’re looking for love and they’re always in some kind of struggle. Life is always a combination of magic, tragedy, and drama.

KUPPER: At what point was it decided that the exhibition would take place at the Variety Arts Building? How did you find this space?

KITTELMANN: From very early on, it was clear to me that I did not want to move into a building that could be easily transformed into a white cube event. So, we looked for places like shopping malls, theaters, but no white-cube-related buildings.

STOSCHEK: It was a long, long journey. I don’t know how often I was flying to Los Angeles to find the right venue. We were supposed to do this show last year, and as you all know, the fires happened. And then, last summer, we all flew in with a location scout. Luckily, we found this treasure, this incredible landmark in downtown with a wonderful history. This building was founded in 1924 by LA’s first women’s club. It was used as a cinema in the ’30s, but also many important figures like Buster Keaton, Laurel & Hardy, Clark Gable, all of their careers began on the main stage and in the main theater. This venue is filled with so much history and now it’s an event space that gets rented out for things like Halloween parties. To reactivate it with stage performance and the moving image makes me very, very happy.

Georges Méliès, *Le voyage dans la lune (A Trip to the Moon)*, 1902, (installation view), “What a Wonderful World: An Audiovisual Poem”, 2026. Photo by Joshua White, Courtesy Julia Stoschek Foundation.

KUPPER: Going into the basement really feels like you’re stepping into a Berlin nightclub.

STOSCHEK: Yeah, absolutely. But also, there’s three main stages. There were some older people at the opening who remembered going to the theater, but I was also so impressed to see so many young people. A lot of them had never been in this old building. It was lovely to introduce people to something that’s always been here.

KUPPER: It really is a gift to LA, so thank you for that. Calling it an audiovisual poem really allows for a lot of risks, contradiction, emotional slippage. As a curator, what kind of freedom did calling it an audiovisual poem give you to frame the exhibition?

KITTELMANN: First of all, I hoped that changing the term from an exhibition to a poem would change the expectations of the audience. An audiovisual poem makes it immediately more emotional. It asks you to share the poem with empathy.

STOSCHEK: This show, this poem is beyond familiar formats. Opening hours are Wednesday to Sunday, 5:00 PM until midnight, which is quite unusual for Angelenos. People get popcorn. We have at least forty-four rooms, and the visitors also have the freedom to move around wherever they want to. There are no rules. I think that’s very important

KITTELMANN: As I said, embrace the disorientation. And this comes so much with the feeling of our current time. We are so in a mood of being disorientated.

KUPPER: Why not make this a permanent experience in LA? Have you been asked that a lot?

STOSCHEK: Intensity needs finitude. The complete show is a cinematic experience. A film also has an ending. I feel very happy to feel so welcomed in Los Angeles. Let’s see what the future brings.

What A Wonderful World is on view until March 20th in Los Angeles. Click here for more information/reserve tickets.