text by Oliver Maxwell Kupper
Most people know Tim Heidecker from his brilliant Adult Swim series โTim & Ericโs Awesome Show, Great Job!โ and โTim & Ericโs Bedtime Stories.โ While itโs easy to use colorful adjectives to describe his brand of humor, itโs even harder to define it. Whatever it is, heโs developed a massive cult following. Heโs an everyman that blends a sort of slobbish machismo with the mind of a stoner philosopher, but there is also something sinister about his wit and irreverent spin on, well, everything. Like every great comedian, Heidecker doesnโt identify himself as one. His role in Rick Alversonโs 2012 film The Comedy proves Heidecker is a brilliant, natural actor with an ability to show a haunting, dispossessed vulnerability that encapsulates a very distinct ennui and disillusionment belonging to the comedown between youth and middle age. As he gets wiser, Heidecker exudes a certain suburban boredom โ a boredom that he makes seem exciting in his new album In Glendale. Itโs a true ode to the singer songwriters, like Warren Zevon, Harry Nilsson, and Randy Newman, who wrote about their surroundings and life with a beautiful banality. Because itโs Harry Nilsson or Zevon or Newman, it works, and just like that, Heidecker can pull it off too. I got a chance to chat with Heidecker about comedy, music, getting stabbed in the back and dream projects that havenโt materialized yet.
OLIVER KUPPER: The new album is great, by the way. I really enjoyed it.
TIM HEIDECKER: Thank you. Thatโs a good place to start.
KUPPER: Yeah, compliments are a good place to start. This is your first somewhat earnest album, right?
HEIDECKER: Uh huh, whatever that means.
KUPPER: Whatโs it like writing songs versus writing comedy? Is there a different wavelength you need to be on?
HEIDECKER: I donโt know. Songwriting is a little more meditative. Obviously, it involves an instrument usually - singing, playing guitar, playing piano, noodling around, finding phrases and subject matter. Itโs something that Iโve done for years as a hobby or a way of clearing my brain of other stuff. It can be spontaneous; you can be sitting in a car with other friends and start singing something catchy. Comedy is generally driven by a project. What are the ultimate goals of this? It involves a lot more people, a lot more collaboration. Iโm very productive when Iโm in collaboration with comedy. I donโt sit around and dream up amazing ideas all day long. It generally involves getting lunch or going on a road trip. Itโs doing something where thereโs a conversation with a buddy โ Eric, Gregg [Turkington], or Doug [Lussenhop]. Someone Iโm close with. Music is more singular.
KUPPER: Were you craving that singular, cathartic experience?
HEIDECKER: Not really. With this record, I had always written lots of music. Certain songs would end up in a folder on my computer. Like, I donโt really know what this is. It might not be appropriate for comedy. Itโs not really funny; itโs sort of sincere. I was reluctant to share that publicly. But once the first couple of songs on the record starting coming out of me, I thought, thereโs a theme here that kind of works. It might be nice to put a record out without it being couched in a joke or a character.
KUPPER: How did you team up with [Jonathan] Rado from Foxygen?
HEIDECKER: Through Chris Swanson, who runs Secretly Canadian. I had known him for a while. Those guys financed the movie that I was in, The Comedy. We were friendly. He was a big fan of our work. He knew I was doing music, and he nudged me to take a stab at making records in a more current or straightforward way. He was curious to see what I could do if I did something outside of parody, if I could be a pop music guy that was doing interesting stuff. Rado and I connected on very similar interests in music - 70s singer/songwriter stuff. I love talking about the process, how those guys got the sounds they got, and getting back to that straightforward songwriting. He just wanted to help and be involved.
KUPPER: Heโs super talented. That band is really great. Who were some of the singer/songwriters at the top of that list that you would talk about?
HEIDECKER: For me, itโs Randy Newman, Warren Zevon, Harry Nilsson - the greats, the big ones. Iโve been really enjoying them for the past several years now.
KUPPER: Iโm obsessed with Harry Nilsson. When you decided to go in and make this album, did you feel like you had enough songs? Did you throw yourself in the studio and see what you could come up with? Half and half?
HEIDECKER: The process by which this record was made may be interesting, maybe not. Half the songs were written in a period of a month or so. The other half were songs I had written over the years; they didnโt fit into any one category. I had my little home recording studio. I would try to build up the track. You know, not just me and the guitar, but drums, bass. Itโs a fun way to work, to build tracks, and getting it to sound good, but never that good. Iโm not that good at it. I made a demo version of the album at home. It was in the order of all the songs, with a couple extras. I took this home demo to Rado and his garage, and we started making the songs from scratch at his place. Heโs such a great piano player and drummer. We recorded on tape, and we had four or five demos out of that. But they were still demos; they werenโt what we both wanted, which was really clean studio, major-label-sounding recordings. So we took those demos, and I gave them to my band that I play with live - City City. They learned the demos, and then we went into a real recording studio. In the course of a week, we laid everything down. Very quickly, because we knew all the sounds and what we wanted to sound like. We wanted the level of professionalism and the clean sheen that those 70s records had.
KUPPER: You work with a lot of musicians. Itโs like a ten-piece band, right?
HEIDECKER: Yeah, thereโs a ten-piece band that I put together. Itโs mostly that band, City City, and a little horn section. Itโs a little bit extravagant; thereโs two background singers, two electric guitar players. I could probably shave that down if I needed to. But right now, everyone just gels. They all came in and brought their own talents to the record. Iโm very grateful.
KUPPER: Do you think the audience for your music is different from your comedy audience? Your comedy following is big. Will the same people come out for your music, do you think?
HEIDECKER: For right now, a large percentage of my fans will find me through comedy. With this record, weโre trying to present it to the largest group of people possible. I think some people who are coming on board either didnโt know or didnโt care for my work, but they like the music. Itโs not intended just for the fans; itโs intended for people who like the music. I get a lot of, โOh, this Tim Heidecker record is actually pretty good.โ Theyโre surprised. Some fans who have been following me a little closer arenโt surprised because they know that I am a big music lover and music maker. That early music might be sillier, but it has the same core qualities.
"I donโt necessarily identify myself as a โcomedian.โ I do comedy, I do standup and sketch comedy. I make all kinds of stuff. But I donโt concern myself with what to call it or how I should be perceived...I think itโs unfortunate that we expect people to stay in their lanes."
KUPPER: Itโs interesting. Not a lot of comedians can bounce between these different mediums and be taken seriously. Especially when it comes to acting. Your role in The Comedy was a really serious role. There are certain actors, like Robin Williams, whose acting is so good that you donโt necessarily think of them as a comedian anymore. Do you ever think about the implications of being too serious?
HEIDECKER: Itโs a thing thatโs put on us by journalists and certain people that have perceptions of what people are supposed to do. It doesnโt affect my decision making when I decide to do something or not. I generally try to do something based on the desire to do it, whether or not I think it will have quality and be successful. I donโt necessarily identify myself as a โcomedian.โ I do comedy, I do standup and sketch comedy. I make all kinds of stuff. But I donโt concern myself with what to call it or how I should be perceived. If anything, itโs more interesting to have different facets and abilities. I think itโs unfortunate that we expect people to stay in their lanes. Actors, musicians, directors, whatever - most of us started out just wanting to make stuff, to do something creative. There was more of a push towards doing comedy, for me. But I still have interest in lots of stuff. As long as thereโs a market for it, I want to pursue those things. I also understand that there is context. Thereโs a challenge when someone who is usually a country singer comes out with a rap album. Itโs going to be hard. But some people can do it really well. I admire Steve Martin. He can be silly, very serious and intellectual, he can play music and go on tour. I just hope that you can place this record of mine in the context of my larger body of work and say, โThis guy has ideas. He has an interest in expressing himself in different ways.โ
KUPPER: Thereโs a lot of freedom in that. If you see yourself as an artist and not specifically in one lane, you can do anything, even if thereโs not a market for it.
HEIDECKER: I want to have that reputation, that you donโt know exactly what to expect when I present something. It should, theoretically make you more interested in what Iโm doing next.
KUPPER: You still maintain the cult comedian aura. Is that something that you try to hold onto, or is it a natural progression of you as an artist?
HEIDECKER: Itโs all just been fun, playing with identity and the media, trying to create work that leaps the dimensions of television or linear video. Itโs been more fun, for On Cinema, to let those characters have a life outside the show. This record, though, is really straight. Thereโs really not an angle for me to be anybody but myself. If thereโs something stupid, like something from the Tim and Eric Show, the work speaks for itself. Letโs just party.
KUPPER: Do you feel like you get a lot of stupid questions? Do you like doing interviews?
HEIDECKER: It depends. Itโs interesting to see the spectrum of people who are interested. Our publicist works very hard to get as much press as we can. My attitude has always been, do as much as you can. You never know when someone is going to read something out of the blue, and it turns into their favorite thing. But there are so many young people doing this who donโt seem interested. Like, I had a kid come to the Decker screening, and he ran out of questions for me in, like, a minute. I donโt know if this is the best career choice for you if you canโt think of any questions. Heโs like, โYeah, my editor wanted me to talk about Trump.โ He asked me three questions about Trump, and then he got tongue-tied.
KUPPER: They want clickbait.
HEIDECKER: Yeah. But generally, if thereโs someone like you, someone thoughtful and interesting, I think itโs pretty harmless. It helps me figure out what the hell Iโm doing. You can make stuff, but you donโt really analyze it too much until you start talking to someone about it.
KUPPER: Itโs interesting how that works. Thatโs why real criticism is important, too. People are too focused on clickbait, and they donโt think that the most interesting thing is to analyze the work and talk to the artist to find answers.
HEIDECKER: I think some criticism tends to be very quick, not thoughtful, not researched. The negative criticism Iโve gotten has usually come without a frame of reference to me or my work. Itโs a very easy, โThis is just Dad rock.โ Iโm insecure with that person, who doesnโt know the context. Itโs safer and quicker to go with a buzzword that they just heard.
KUPPER: Youโre premiering Decker next week?
HEIDECKER: Yes, Friday the 17th.
KUPPER: And youโre working with Gregg Turkington again, which is great. Whatโs that experience been like?
HEIDECKER: Gregg and I have known each other for about 10 years now. I was such a huge Hamburger fan. I roped him into doing our show. Our wives get together. Weโve got kids who are the same age. We just share a lot of common interests. Once we started doing this On Cinema thing, it seemed like we found this endless well of material that we could keep feeding and growing and developing. We established these two characters that are so fun to write for and behave as. It keeps entertaining us, this world. And it keeps getting bigger, because we keep adding fuel to it. Also, heโs just a nice guy. Iโm so grateful to do this. On the TV show, we were able to elevate things a little bit. We were doing it as a full time thing. It was one of the most stress-free, joyful experiences. Everyone doing it loves it. Itโs an easy thing to make. Itโs so shitty. Itโs not like youโre doing tons of takes and waiting for the perfect light. There are very little bad vibes in that environment. At my age, you want to be around that kind of energy as much as possible.
KUPPER: Especially in collaborations.
HEIDECKER: Yeah.
KUPPER: Itโs been ten years since you had that famous interaction with your neighbor [where he stabbed you in the back]. Do you still think about that, or is it ancient history at this point?
HEIDECKER: Strangely, Iโve been thinking about it lately. Not to pat myself on the back (and not to be ironic), when that kid did that to me, I didnโt want to press charges. It felt like such a futile thing to do. He was 19 or 20 years old. He was on some insane drug. If he was going to go to jail for a significant amount of time, he would end up way worse. Heโd be a bigger problem to the world. He ought to be given another shot. Those with white privilege are treated with more leniency, and thatโs not fair, but it shouldnโt be, โLetโs throw this kid in a dark cell for the rest of his life.โ It should be, how can we give disadvantaged kids better opportunities? We need to look at the prison system as not the answer to our problems. Itโs a heavy thing. When youโre actually faced with the choice to punish somebody, itโs a hard thing to do. If you know anything, the prison system is designed to fail. It doesnโt make any sense.
KUPPER: You have to rehabilitate.
HEIDECKER: Yeah.
KUPPER: Do you have any dream projects that havenโt materialized yet?
HEIDECKER: Weโre kind of doing it all. The more of an audience you have, the easier it is to do all these things. Thatโs the challenge, to get the word out, to get people to tune in. The futility of that is I know I donโt have a lot of power there. It either connects with a larger group of people, or it doesnโt. To answer your question, the next record I want to do, we want to bring in some of the guys that actually played on those old records who are still around. People like Jim Keltner, those guys who are still doing sessions and available. I would love to go in with Murdererโs Row and the people who made that, just to do it, because you can. I think that adds a whole other level.
KUPPER: I look forward to that, for sure.
[helicopter-like sound]
HEIDECKER: Cool. My helicopter is here, so I guess I got to go.
Tim Heidecker's new album, In Glendale, is out now on Rado Records. Text and interview by Oliver Maxwell Kupper. Photographs by Cara Robbins. Follow Autre on Instagram: @AUTREMAGAZINE